Beekeeping Management Practices... by Underwood ,Traver, and López-Uribe

[Michael Bush]

>If memory serves me right, Michael Bush went through a treatment phase with his bees for a period of time, but dumped it to go TF. That right?

I was determined not to treat but after I could find no one who believed that was possible I did treat for a few years. But treating failed as miserably as treating. Of course at the time I first tried treating for Varroa I had already been NOT treating for anything for 25 years. I finally found Dee and Ed Lusby, who were the first people I found who believed it was even possible to not treat for Varroa.

[Solomon]

And then I came along shortly after that. My dad had gotten a hive back in the mid nineties when I was in grade school and it died in horrific fashion without treatment. I decided to get into beekeeping in the fall of 2012. At that point, Ed and Dee were really the only ones who had ever done it without treatment on any scale at all, and Michael was going into his first successful TF winter (or maybe second) if I recall. I bought in in the spring of 2003, and I never experienced the mass die off that I was told to expect. But I started on all small cell, and never treated. It's sort of surprising that with so many packages (20) and being a new beekeeper, I didn't destroy the whole thing, but it went fairly well, I thought.

[BobTheBuilder]

How much of your initial survival rate has to do with nutrition you think, Solomon? Can the bees get to a lot of stuff during the season? Is it sprayed?
I believe some bees have an easier time surviving due to their local environment.

[ELazzell]

To say that TF beekeepers are not concerned about profitability, or that one of their drives is not profit, is untrue. Rather, from what I have read and seen, they are also concerned about survivorability, sustainability, quality of product and environmental impact in addition to profitability. Whereas large operations who treat their bees seem to be focused mainly on profitability. Additionally, attempting to combine large operation treated bees into the same study as TF bees and drawing a conclusion which is inclusive of both groups is like including the wolf and domesticated dog into the same study and drawing conclusions on how best to help the wolf survive. You can not expect a pet dog to survive on it’s own. And you can not expect to treat the wolf like a pet without taking away some of it’s survival instincts and abilities.

[tommyboy]

it has been my experience that people who advocate for treatment ,have a vested interest in your treating.either they sell these potions ,and delivery apparatus.or they sell the sick insects that depend on them.. and next year you will buy more bees cause the last ones died because you are incompetent and didn't treat properly ,the circle goes on year after year..treatment free is a threat to their livelihood...tommyboy

[Tuhlmann]

it has been my experience that people who advocate for treatment ,have a vested interest in your treating.either they sell these potions ,and delivery apparatus.or they sell the sick insects that depend on them.. and next year you will buy more bees cause the last ones died because you are incompetent and didn't treat properly ,the circle goes on year after year..treatment free is a threat to their livelihood...tommyboy

I’ve noticed that, too. A lot of money to be made in beekeeping....especially when you are selling both the problem and the solution.

[Michael Bush]

After decades of not treating for anything, I finally treated for Varroa for a few years. It was a dead end. All the bees died when I didn't treat and all the bees died when I did treat. Finally I got on small cell and things started to turn around. At that time NO one except Dee Lusby said it was even possible to keep bees alive with Varroa without treatments.